Listening is Loving.

There is a powerful truth that most people can’t tell the difference between being listened to and being loved. This single thought shapes everything I do—from hosting The Fitting Room podcast to working with executive teams to design resilient organizations.

 

The Story vs. The Strategy

I’ve learned that you can design the greatest strategy in the world, but it will never outcompete the story a person tells themselves.

My time running ultra-marathons taught me this lesson on the trail: a person can have a perfect strategy and still fail to finish. But those with a great story—a deep "why"—always find a way to the finish line. As a strategist who loves stories, I believe that having both is what makes a winner.

 

Research-Backed Insight

My journey as a Doctoral Candidate in Strategic Leadership (DSL) has transformed my work from simple interviews into deep research. I study how stories influence and motivate us more effectively than skill or strategy alone.

Whether you are an executive in a hospital or a student at a university, the problem is rarely a lack of talent. It’s "Identity Drift"—the high cost of losing sight of who you are in the midst of transition.

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What I Bring to the Table

• The Endurance of a Runner: Completing a 31-mile ultra-marathon taught me that organizational change isn’t a sprint; it’s about what happens in the miles no one sees.

• The Heart of a Pastor: With over seven years of pastoral experience, I believe you cannot lead people you do not love, and you cannot love people you do not listen to.

• The Rigor of a Strategist: Using research-backed frameworks and tools like Genius Spark, I help teams move from confusion to clarity by mapping their 34 CliftonStrengths.

 

Parts of My Story

I live and work in Tulsa, Oklahoma as a full-time pastor, alongside my beautiful wife, Natali, and our daughter, Anaia. My greatest inspiration is Jesus—the ultimate storyteller. His strategy changed the world because of the stories He told, and I strive to lead with that same intentionality. His story changed my history and gave me a better future, now I am on a mission to do the same for others. 

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I am ready for my story to intersect with yours. Let’s make an impact.